Jivana 15:58:51
Welcome to the Accessible Yoga Podcast where we explore how to make space for everyone in the yoga community.
Amber Karnes 15:58:57
This podcast is brought to you by the Accessible Yoga Association, a nonprofit organization focused on accessibility and equity in yoga.
Jivana 15:59:05
Hi, I'm your host, Jivana Heyman, my pronouns are he and him. And I serve as the director of accessible yoga.
Amber Karnes 15:59:11
And I'm your co host, Amber Karnes, my pronouns are she and her, and I serve as president of the accessible yoga board of directors. Jivana Hey, how's it going?
Jivana 15:59:21
Hey, Amber, how are you?
Amber Karnes 15:59:23
I'm doing good. I'm having a good week. So far. I've had some, like, feeling stuck with certain projects and things, feelings for a while that are feeling a little more open. And like, there's possibilities. So that's nice place to be. How about you?
Jivana 15:59:39
That's awesome. I'm so glad. I'm good. You know, I have a lot of stuff going on with my kids. You know, my kids are challenging. They're 20 and 16, which probably just says it all, right?
Amber Karnes 15:59:55
Now they're like, basically people with opinions of their own. And like, what they do things on their own? How rude. Yeah,
Jivana 16:00:04
This is rough. Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm okay. I'm excited about this episode.
Amber Karnes 16:00:13
Me too. We're gonna talk about your book. So...
Jivana 16:00:16
My favorite thing to talk about.
Amber Karnes 16:00:20
Yeah, so I'm excited to talk about this. Your book is, is out, is coming out, tell people about like, where's the trajectory of the book? And then we're gonna talk all about it.
Jivana 16:00:31
Yeah, the official release date is November 16. So I don't know, it depends when this comes out. If Yeah, it's before that people can preorder the book anywhere books are sold, which is awesome. I hope they will, because that really helps with spreading the word about the book, if they see there's a lot of pre orders, they actually put more effort into that publisher side. But otherwise, if it's after November 16, you can just order the book and get it anywhere you like. And actually, I have if people go to my website, and maybe I can put a link to this in the show notes. But I have a bunch of free practices I'm giving away to anyone who orders my book. So you can go on my website, and then go to a link and get the classes that I've described in the back of my new book. I've videotaped them. And I have one, a version and a chair and a version on the mat. And I have an audio meditation I've led. And so people can get that if they if they bought the book.
Amber Karnes 16:01:30
Awesome. Sort of like modern technology, part of the publishing thing is like, oh, and we get to practice with you not only like, read about it, that's cool.
Jivana 16:01:40
Yeah, I'm excited about that, too. And actually, I'm excited about doing a some kind of book launch, which hopefully have announced by the time this comes out, I don't know what it's gonna be yet. But it'll be a, you know, free event that people can come to and just hear more about it. Maybe it'll be cool, I hope.
Amber Karnes 16:01:57
Yeah. Yeah, that'll be awesome. We'll share all of that stuff through the podcast and email and everything. But I want to jump into talking about the topics of this book, which, you know, I know you've been thinking about and writing about and living for a while. So I wonder if you want to just like, let's talk about the title. So the title is yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. Right. Is that it?
Jivana 16:02:22
Yeah, that's right.
Amber Karnes 16:02:24
You want to talk about why you picked that?
Jivana 16:02:27
Yeah, I mean, it's funny. It's such a journey in evolution. I don't know people who've written books probably understand that. It's like, you start with one idea. And then it evolved into something else. And actually, the original working title was Rainbow Mind, which is now that a chapter title. And we can talk about that chapter later, maybe because I love that part. But I was just to be honest, a publisher wasn't happy with that they didn't think it was clear enough, and they wanted something more direct. And so we came up with the yoga revolution together. And I, I had used that name, that title in a talk that I gave actually, the first accessible yoga conference in New York City, I lead a talk on yoga revolution. So maybe some of our listeners are even there. And what I tried, what I tried to share in that talk that really came through this book, I think, is the idea that yoga allows for an inner revolution in the way that we relate to ourselves that it's, it's really about a different internal relationship than we normally have. And also, yoga can revolutionize the way we are in the world. And so the only thing I want to say about the title is that I don't it's not about revolutionising yoga. Like I'm not talking about yoga changing. I'm talking about how yoga changes us. And I just want to be clear.
Amber Karnes 16:03:45
I love that. Yeah. So the tagline, you know, is about building a practice of courage and compassion. I don't know, if you want to talk about that a little bit like, are those two things opposites? Or why do they go together?
Jivana 16:04:00
Yeah, no, I think they go together, I think it goes back to that idea I had about this inner revolution. And this outer revolution, that's kind of the theme in the book is inner transformation, and outer transformation and the relationship between them. And that yoga is really about the inner transformation. And that's what that's what the book is really about. It's about doing the inner spiritual work of yoga, and how that then changes the way we are in the world. And I think, I think that's the the main message I'm trying to share is that yoga offers incredible tools, and practices that can transform our inner life. And, and it has for me, and I know it has for you, and so many people. And I also want people to look at how that affects our life in the way we live and everything we do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's not to me, it's not enough to just do that work to just I don't know, how do I say it's like, I don't believe in enlightenment as a personal practice. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't think it works that way.
Amber Karnes 16:05:11
I mean, we've talked about this a lot before that, like, yeah, the the practice can be used to sort of like, reduce stress and make us feel better, and like manage our mind about painful things. But like, if you only use that to like, make yourself personally, like, feel calm or whatever, then there's kind of an opportunity or missing, is that what you mean?
Jivana 16:05:29
Yeah and I think that, like, that's an important part of yoga, there is that self care, and it's essential. And there's that inner work, that is really what I mostly talk about. But to me, there, it's, it's wasted. If it's not in the service of humanity, you know, if it doesn't, it's like, what's the point of Who is it this? This teacher Aarti, I don't knowhow to say her last name, you know, Inamdar was speaking at our community forum that we had at accessible yoga on cultural appropriation. And she said something like, and I'm paraphrasing, she's like, what's the point of all that breathing? If it doesn't help to make the world a little better for other people? And, you know, like, that really summarizes it. For me, it's like, what's the point of all of that stretching and meditation? And what are the ethics and all of it? What's the point of it if it's not in the service of, of ourselves, and others as well? Like, if it doesn't make some impact on the world? And I want to, I want to look at that, you know, what is that relationship between the two things? I think that's what courage and compassion are about, I think courage to me is actually the inner, inner courage to like, face yourself, honestly. And to really examine your inner relationship, to look at your inner dialogue, things like that. And then compassion is how we then act in the world when we see ourselves and others. So I think that's where I was going with those two words, kind of like, inner revolution and the outer revolution. And it goes back and forth. Like the first chapter of the book is the inner revolution. The second part is outer revolution. And then third part is actually practice like building that yoga in practice, like, what does that look like? Again, going back inside, and I always use this, this image, I was talking to someone about the book the other day, and I saw this image of waves on the shore. And like, that's how I think of my my life. It's like, I'm like a wave where I'm like, crashing on the shore, like, into the world, like, it feels like crashing off into the world, you know, like, trying to deal with all that stuff that happens to you all day long. And then you recede back into the ocean, in the direct connect back to myself, basically, and then just to crash again, on the shore. And I feel like that's how life is for me. It's like, I can find something inside. And then when I go out into the world, it's like, I'm constantly challenged by that, you know what I mean?
Amber Karnes 16:07:54
Yeah, wow. I love that sort of, like, zooming in and out aspect of it. And, you know, using the practice to like, know yourself better. So then when you go into the world, like, you can, you know, have compassion for others, like through that lens? Like, that's, that's a really powerful concept, I think. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about that. Like, I think about this sort of, you know, making the world a little bit better for other people, or, you know, what's the point of all their breathing if we're not doing that like that social justice we're talking about, right. And so I wonder if we can talk about like, what is the relationship between yoga and social justice? Like is yoga social justice when we practice it, like, let's talk about that a little bit?
Jivana 16:08:40
Yeah, actually, I think. I don't think it is social justice. To be honest. I actually think it's it's yoga in practice. I think that's what we're talking about, I think yoga and practice, or, or you could call it, service, Karma yoga ceva. That's like, yoga off the mat. That's what I'm talking about, like yoga off the mat. And, and that's the heart of the practice is how, how your inner practice affects your actions in the world. I think that for me, personally, is social justice activism. That's my, that's how it the form it takes in my life. And I, I was an AIDS activist, you know, in the 80s, and 90s. And I still consider myself an activist, maybe more of a community organizer, I like to use that word. And I think you are too. And I would say, I see my work as an aspect of yoga and as a practice, personally, but I'm not, I'm not equating yoga and, and social justice, what I'm saying is that yoga is about service and seeing yourself and others, and compassion and love and expansion. Honestly, if you get to the heart of the teachings, they're really about identifying with spirit, rather than with the mind and body. I mean, that's the, the essential teaching in yoga, I would say is that we haven't, we have the spiritual essence, which could call, you know, atman, or purusha, or even Brahman as like the greater spirit that's within everything. And you know, we have this body in mind that are temporary vehicles for the spirit, and they're constantly changing, and they're mortal, like the body and mind will, will constantly change and then die. But the spirit is unchanging and immortal and won't die. And so the practice of yoga is simply connect or identify with that part of you that's unchanging, rather than with a part of you that's constantly changing. And it's a dance, you know, because we have to honor the part of it on other temporary parts, as well, like, we have to respect the body in mind, and care for it and, and understand the essential. Know what the word is like, the importance of having a body and a mind because we couldn't be here without that. So I'm not I'm not saying it's not important, but it's just that in the yoga teachings, the idea is shifting the locus of identity, to spirit instead. And I think the process of doing that changes the way we see the world where we no longer see people as other. And this is an important dimension, like there's not a motto of spiritual bypassing, right? It's not about like, we're all one. It's saying, No, we're all different. We all have these completely different bodies and minds, and our lives are completely different. And our struggles are different. But underneath that, we are one underneath that, behind the physical, the human is the, in our heart, we are the same. And so seeing my heart in you and in other people, is the essential teaching of yoga, Trans- kind of uh, what's the word - overcoming the obstacle of ignorance of spiritual ignorance and of egoism, which makes me think that I'm separate than you, and I'm in competition with you. Do you know what I mean? That that's really what we're trying to get at. And to me, that's social justice, but I'm saying that may not appear that way for someone else. Does that make sense?
Amber Karnes 16:12:23
Yeah, it does. Now, I love that. And I, I think that, you know, this points toward service. Like, let's talk about that a little bit. So if you Yeah, you know, if you've gotten in touch with these teachings, and you're connecting with, you know, what the things that don't change the spirit aspect and seeing that, and others, you know, I think, well, at least in my experience, I know yours to prompts action, right? It prompts us to want to do something to be of service and use our gifts in the world. And I wonder if you can talk about the concept of service, as you know, practicing with your with your feet, like, you know, they say praying with your feet, like yoga off the mat. And and I know you spent some time talking about that in the book, too.
Jivana 16:13:10
Yeah, I mean, I I think it looks different for everybody. And I, I just want to say that I mean, in the book, I talk a lot about my experience, but that's because that's me and my experience, and I'm not projecting onto everyone else what that appears as and so that's why again, I want identify that everyone has their own path of yoga and of Self Realization. I think I just want to go back for a minute to like the traditional way we understand yoga and say that it's often seen as a, you know, a monastic there's a monastic tradition within the yoga teachings of separating from the world. And that's where that's like what the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali generally teach us to do is to separate from the world to isolate ourselves as a way of realizing our spiritual nature. The Bhagavad Gita offers a different approach that's more of an engaged ethical path of service, you know, and in wisdom, like, understand the reality of our spiritual nature, and then act in accordance with that, that's, I think, the message of the Gita. So I guess what I'm saying is there are different traditions within yoga, there is not one way, although I think, classically, we are looking at much more of a monastic lineage. And so what I'm saying is a little a departure from that. Because what I'm trying to say is like, right now, what's happened is we've, I don't know how to say this, it's almost like we've pulled out just certain pieces of the yoga tradition and use those. And it's so weird to me that we've pulled out the monastic part, when we have a modern yoga culture that is so focused on Asana, and to me, there's a really dangerous fusion of like, monastic, individual enlightenment approach, and Asana obsession, you know, self improvement of self obsession of the West. And to me, that's like a really dangerous mixture that's that come together within contemporary practice. And I guess the reason I'm, I'm really wanting to highlight the other more service oriented approach, and the connection part as like a new, not new, but like, maybe a renewed look at the tradition of yoga, like focusing more on that service piece, then on the inner enlightenment goal? I don't know if that made sense.
Amber Karnes 16:15:43
Yeah, it did. And I think looking at it through the lens of like, you know, there are examples of this, like, the Gita talks about this. And it's so you know, that there's not just one text of yoga in the first place, but also, that people's practice is going to look different. I mean, even just looking at like, you know, Karma yoga versus like, Bhakti, you know, there are different directions that you can take this practice. And so I appreciate you exploring that in this book.
Jivana 16:16:17
Right, and they're up to this, they've been activists all the way to through history. I mean, you can use an obvious example, like Gandhi, to look at what, you know, what the movement that Gandhi was identified with, but really a movement of people who were using the ideas of non violence, you know, the himsa, in such truthfulness as their like, focus in creating a huge revolution that, you know, outed the colonial British government in India, based on the yoga teachings. I think it's quite profound to see that transformation. And then to see that, you know, Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela, both used some of those teachings, inspired by Gandhi and the other yoga teachings to also offer nonviolent protest, and transform the world. I mean, I think if you look at those kind of civil rights movements, it's often based on these yogic ideas. So to me, there's not, it's not new to say that yoga is revolutionary. I just think somehow, we've been marketed a yoga, that's not revolutionary because of the way that capitalism works. And that someone's trying to make a buck off of it. And so that means we're going to just teach it like this little package deal. When the heart of it has always been completely revolutionary, it's really about loving others, and connection and community and service. I mean, that is really the heart of what, to me, at least what yoga is always been about. And I think it's come out at many times throughout history. And I think a lot of that's happening now, like, really, I was inspired by Black Lives Matter. And I think that's when the book really began to take shape, because I was just so inspired by, like, the largest civil rights movement in history, which was Black Lives Matter. And the way that I saw that changing culture so quickly, and how much of those were the themes that I heard repeated within Black Lives Matter are actually yogic ideas.
Amber Karnes 16:18:27
That's right. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I want to talk about rainbow mind because you said that was the original title of the book. I know it's a chapter in the book. So what does it mean to have a rainbow mind?
Jivana 16:18:44
Yeah, so to me I was trying to kind of visualize like, I'm Visual Artists, honestly, that's my training. And so I think images. And I, when I was writing my first book, accessible yoga, I wrote a sentence that really stuck with me and I can't remember exactly but something around like how, like light through a prism, you know that we are the same, but we're all completely different. And I just love that imagery of like, how a prison you know that a prism shows us both sides that there's the connection, like I talked about the unity. And then the other side, there's the diversity and that's something my, my teachers teacher, Swami Sivananda used to say, you know, unity and diversity is the goal of yoga to see the unity behind the diversity of, of the world, and of humanity, is what we're trying to do in our practice. And a rainbow represents that to me, because a rainbow is also it's all the colors, but it's also light. It's just pure white light. Does that make sense?
Amber Karnes 16:19:47
Yeah, so Okay, so having the rainbow mind.
Jivana 16:19:51
Also, like rainbow is like the image of the Queer community. And like, I learned that like, you know, as a Queer person, I feel really grateful to my Queer community for constantly teaching me and challenging me and for like, innovation and creativity. You know, I feel like so much new and innovative thinking comes from Queer people. And so I kinda was thinking about that like about how a Queer approach to yoga would bring in this idea. And I also want to give a shout out to Jacoby Ballard, because like Jacoby has a new book called Queer Dharma that's coming out the same day as my book, which is so amazing and and he comes like, his book is similar. Obviously, parallel to mine, he's looking much more at Buddhist teachings, but also a lot of yoga. And they're, like, a Queer perspective on it. And I just I love that. So I guess that's what I was kind of trying to visualize. It's like, what is a Queer Mind? Yoga view of the mind? Like, and I, to me, it's like, this is I mean, maybe this is oversimplifying it, but you know how In yoga we normally say, like in meditation, we tell people to still the mind or stop the mind. Or control the mind -
Amber Karnes 16:21:10
Quiet the mind?
Jivana 16:21:11
Yeah, and I have, I've always struggled with that, you know, like, I have an incredibly active, busy mind. And I'm trying, and I tell a story in the book about my anxiety, which you and I have talked about before, like how, when I let my you know, my mind can go to some bad places. But I don't think the answer for me is to stop my mind or control it, but rather to actually love it for what it is, and hold it with care and compassion for myself and actually embrace my busy mind. And so I don't, I don't know, I don't know how to express that except like this rainbow mind, a mind that's not stopped. But actually, that's incredibly active and, and saying that's okay, you know, like, it's okay that I can have all these thoughts and feelings. And I'm still a yoga practitioner, even if my mind isn't still. Because in the end, that's not really the goal. The goal of yoga to me is not to stop the mind, but actually to heal my relationship with my mind. So that I realize that the mind is not separate from me. And that it's like, it's like the heart. I think of my heart is the where my spirit is. And then my mind is like in my head, and it's often like, I'm divided. And I'm, I'm trying to integrate instead and feel like my heart and mind are at peace.
Amber Karnes 16:22:42
Yeah, that's beautifully said.
Garrett Jurss 16:22:46
Hey, everyone, we'd like to take a quick break from the podcast to thank one of our supporting organizations, Harrisville Yoga. Harrisville Yoga has a mission of serving communities with accessible yoga programs. Their focus is senior populations and those suffering from chronic illness. Group and individual classes are offered in person and on Zoom. Classes available include accessible Hatha yoga, intermediate Integral Yoga, yoga for cancer and chronic illness, yoga for pelvic health and kundalini awakening. You can contact them using email, Facebook, or Instagram or by visiting them online at Harrisvilleyoga.com.
Amber Karnes 16:23:32
I want to talk about failure as a practice, which is something that you write about and talk about.
Jivana 16:23:37
Yeah, that's what I was just saying. Like, yeah, you know about my anxiety like that really taught me a lot. I mean, coming out when I was a teenager and feeling like I was always doing something wrong, like, there's something wrong with me. You know, being being gay was like bad and wrong and, and then like, being a very shy and insecure person, like I've always struggled with that and like, I'm trying to heal that. And one way is to say that, you know, I can learn from my mistakes. And normally that that is where I learn that like, actually, when I fail or mess up, that's an opportunity. It's not it's not something to beat myself up for. I mean, I don't know, if you do that, do you beat yourself up?
Amber Karnes 16:24:24
Oh, definitely all the time. And, or I, like pre beat myself up by like, oh, gosh, what if I guess wrong, and then I like play out all the, you know, the scenarios. So, yeah, I totally get that. And I, I also, you know, really do believe that, like, the mistakes are the biggest places that we have opportunity for growth agreed, like, you know, I don't know, when I, when I talked to the yoga teachers about marketing, I show them this little cycle of like, experiment, learn something and then iterate, you know, like, get better at the thing. And I think, you know, failure, this idea of failure sometimes implies that, like, it's final, it's done, like, you're either a success or a screw up, you're either, you know, you either made money, or you didn't make any money, you either did the practice or, you know, but like, I think that Black and white thinking is just another way that like, culture kind of has us conditioned. And that one of the beautiful things about the yoga practice is this, like, it leaves room for, you know, the both and kind of, you know, it's not either or, and like, if we can look at failures or mistakes in that way, as like, oh, this has been brought to my attention. So now here's an opportunity for me to get better, or to, you know, to love better get more precise with my language, or whatever the challenges that we've, you know, been given, I think that isn't just, I don't know, it's a more compassionate response in the first place, I think, because like, we're humans, we're not perfect. software programs are whatever we you know, we think we should be great at everything out of the gate, and we're not allowed to be a beginner or whatever, you know, I think like, it's a much more actually sustainable way of being in relationship to ourselves, because we are going to mess up. Like, that's not, that's not if, like, that's a win. And so, you know, if we can figure out a way to, like, embrace that, and like, as an opportunity for growth, and like, I think yoga can be a big tool in working with, like, the shame that comes up, when you perceive that you've failed at something, you know, like that discomfort at, its at its end, like, shame is really a sensation that's happening with our body, you know, and like, we have tools to work with that yoga. And so, anyway –
Jivana 16:26:46
I also I love what you're saying about how we don't have compassion for ourselves, because I, again, that, that within the title, right, and I talked about compassion is also about service. But really, it's also about our relationship with ourselves. Like, we sometimes you're gonna have more compassion for others than for ourselves. You know, like, I'm much nicer to you than I am to myself.
Amber Karnes 16:27:09
1,000% Yes, me too. It's like the way I talk to myself, I would never speak to another that way.
Jivana 16:27:17
Right? And I'm even that's a problem honestly, like, why, you know, like, why is that? And what would it be like to be nicer to yourself? And what would that create for you in your life and actually help? How would that create a better life for others, because I feel like, the first form of service we can offer the world is to care for ourselves. You know what I mean? Like, if everyone took care of themselves, like there would be less harm happening out there, there'll be less pain and suffering. And a lot of us just don't have the tools, we don't have the access to what we need to the resources, we need to care for ourselves. But even those people that do have the access, they don't even do it, they don't do it. And it's interesting to think about self care and talk about a little bit in the book, because maybe we've talked about it before, but like self care, that idea was used by Black women activists in the 60s, who were talking about self care as a way to build up their energy reserves. So they had the energy to keep moving on and to continue working towards equity and justice. And it's been like co-opted by capitalism. And now it's like, a lot of people with complete access to power resources are using the idea of self care. And I feel like that's missing the point. It's like, if you if you feel under resource, if you're marginalized in any way, then self care is your service. Right? You can pour 100% of your time into caring for yourself. And I think we see that movement towards like rats As what does it you know, you know, I'm talking about?
Amber Karnes 16:28:55
Yeah, I'm thinking of the Nap Ministry that's like one of the people I follow doing that work.
Jivana 16:29:00
Yes, she really started it. I mean that Nap Ministry is incredible. I quote her in the book - can't think of her name - and then modern, more contemporary teachers. Well there she is contemporary but like yoga teachers like Octavia Raheem talks about it a lot. And -
Amber Karnes 16:29:14
Kelley Palmer.
Jivana 16:29:16
Yeah, Kelley Palmer. And I would just say like, I think they're talking about people who have been marginalized or under resourced. I don't think it's not that everyone needs to rest. Well, we probably all do. But it's like, actually, if you have a lot of resources, and a lot of privilege, you need to act more like get busy. You know what I mean? Like, do something to make the world a more equitable place and work for justice. Like, that's my feeling about it. But it really depends on your personal situation. And it's not how what I think is not how I perceive it from outside. It's what how you feel about it. Because it's, you can't tell from outside what someone's going through, you know what I mean? I can't decide for you if you have resources or not, you know, you can have invisible disabilities, mental health challenges that just knock you down. And, and that means you need to be caring for yourself, but you might have a lot of energy. Like I talked about, in the book, this research that was done, thing I talked about in the book, about mindfulness, and how it showed that people that do mindfulness who are self centered, just become more self centered. Alright. So it's like spiritual practice doesn't necessarily make you a good person, or a loving caring person, they will exaggerate what's already happening inside of your mind. And so you got to work on it, like ethics are essential. Without ethics, there's no yoga practice. And that's why it's like, there has to be a focus for your work for your, for your spiritual practice. When you go and meditate. I was I was gonna say, I interviewed Michelle Cassandra Johnson, because she's a contributor for the book, just like you are. And for the Yoga Revolution podcast that I have. And she mentioned this too, like, when you go and meditate, or do your spiritual practice, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to just focus on yourself? Are you like, sending prayers are you sending – are you dedicated to something? And I think that's important, like really important, because one thing I say in the book, too, is like spiritual power without service is simply power. Which is know where we see abuse, honestly, coming from. So it's like, there has to be a focus for your dedication, beyond just your own personal needs, I would say or it could be that if you really need it, right, if you need the support, fine, dedicate your service your practice to yourself. But if you have the capacity focus on something other than you bigger than you. I don't know if that makes sense.
Amber Karnes 16:31:55
Yeah, it does. And I love that, you know, well, I think that, you know, you're not providing a checklist here, like a rubric for people to figure out where they're at. It's like, that's your practice now to go do is like, sit in inquiry with this stuff. Like, you know, what, what needs to be cared for in yourself, and then what needs to be cared for in your community and your family and your, you know, your sphere of influence and your and the ability and the means that you currently have? And I think that's a really personal question for each each of us to, to get real with and to consider, like, you know, find our lane and then stay in it and do good work. So, yeah, okay, this has been really great. I want to just ask, like, what's a big, or like, what's a takeaway, or like a, something you want people to leave with when they when they read this book? Hmm.
Jivana 16:32:46
I want people to, I pray that it reduces suffering in some way in the world. Like, that's my goal. And my my service is about helping people to embrace the yoga teachings and to find a practice that supports them in their journey, especially like I said, to reduce suffering in some way. Because I really think that's one of the key elements of the yoga teachings is about reducing our suffering personally, and then to look at how we can reduce the suffering of others. And I think part of it is just like giving ourselves a break, and then finding a practice that feels resonant with our goals. So I guess that's the other thing I'd say is like, do some reflection around why you want to practice like, what is it you're trying to do? Are you trying to have spiritual enlightenment? Are you trying to have less stress like, you're kind of what that is for yourself? And then, and then design a practice that actually will do that for you? Yeah, I found, can I read a little poem?
Amber Karnes 16:33:54
Yes.
Jivana 16:33:55
This is just going back to this idea of failure. If that's okay, I just, I just open the book and I, I love this one. And this is very inspirational to me this is by Kabir who was a Bhakti Poet. I believe he was around the 1413 or 1400s. In Persia, which is basically Iraq, and Iran. He says, there's a poem called The failure. He says, I talked to my inner lover, and I say, why such rush? We sense that there is some sort of spirit that loves birds and animals and the ants. Perhaps the one perhaps the same one who gave a radiance to you in your mother's womb? Is it logical, you would be walking around entirely orphaned now? The truth is, you turned away yourself and decided to go into the dark alone. Now you're tangled up in others, and have forgotten what you once knew. And that's why everything you do has some weird failure in it.
Amber Karnes 16:35:01
Wow, I have not heard that one before. I love that.
Jivana 16:35:04
I love that one. It sounds really pessimistic, like everything you do has some word failure in it. And I don't want people to feel that. But there's something in it. That's so hopeful to me. That's like we were saying before. Yeah. And I think goes back to you asked me like what I want to share with people. And that's like, hope for Yeah, just hope for their own personal healing and transformation. The idea that we're not alone, you know, that spiritual, this spirit is there within us. And we need to go and connect to that. It's just waiting. Right? I always I'll say one more thing. I always say that's an I find it really useful. And that's to ask yourself, Who is talking in your mind? And who's listening? Mm hmm. Have we talked about that before?
Amber Karnes 16:35:57
No, but Well, maybe not on here. But I that's like a big teaching of yours that I that I love. And I remember, like some other thing you say along with that is like, you know, if some people refer to that sort of like inner dialogue is prayer, like, what are you praying for all day long? I was like, oh, that's the word.
Jivana 16:36:18
Yeah. That's all like to look at that to like, turn, I think, to realize that yoga is just that simple to like, think about, oh, wait, how am I talking to myself? Am I being kind? Am I being mean? What am I saying? And who is the one who's listening? I'm here right now. Right? Like, to me that spirit, that's my heart is listening to my poor mind.
Amber Karnes 16:36:46
All the ranting and drama of my mind.
Jivana 16:36:51
And like, sometimes, you know, like I was thinking about when my, when my kids were little, and it's just so easy to love them. You know, so easy. Like when they're babies, I should say really little, like tiny little babies and like infants and just theirs. Or like with a pet, like an animal or something that's just so I don't know, innocent and sweet. And you just I like to try to feel that way about my own mind. Like, really create some inner inner compassion and love for myself. That's what I'm feeling right now. So I guess that's what I want to share. I mean, that's really hoping for I don't know if I'm feeling it, but that's what I'm hoping.
Amber Karnes 16:37:29
That's the goal. Right? We're practicing it. Don't always get it right. All right. Well, thank you so much for sharing. With us today about the book. You can go find it wherever books are sold, and you're either going to preorder it or order it based on what date this podcast comes out. Yeah. And so we'll put links in the show notes to all the things that we've talked about in today's podcasts, including where you can get a hold of the book. And anything else you want to leave us with as we go out.
Jivana 16:38:05
Oh, it was fun to be interviewed by you. I mean, we're always playing different parts. You know, it's so funny.
Amber Karnes 16:38:12
I know. Right? We we do good with that.
Jivana 16:38:17
Thanks for joining us for the Accessible Yoga podcast. We're so grateful to be in community with you.
Amber Karnes 16:38:22
Please check out our website accessibleyoga.org. To find out more about our upcoming programs, including our annual Accessible Yoga conference, at our website. You can also learn more about how to become an Accessible Yoga Ambassador and support the work that we're doing in the world.
Jivana 16:38:36
Please subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review. Wherever you listen. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
Amber Karnes 16:38:41
You can also submit a question or suggest a topic or potential guests you'd like us to interview at accessibleyoga.org See you next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
