Jivana Heyman
Hello and welcome. This is the yoga revolution podcast. My name is Jivana Heyman, my pronouns are he and him. This podcast is an exploration of how we can live yoga right now, and how we can apply the yoga teachings in our lives. We'll discuss the intersection of yoga and social justice, as well as how to build a practice that supports our activism. All my guests are contributors to my new book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. Thanks so much for joining me. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Thanks for coming back to this episode of yoga revolution podcast. I'm so excited to have a special guest today Rane Bowen. Hey, Rane.
Rane Bowen
Hello, how
Jivana Heyman
are you? Good. Thanks for being here. And I wanted to introduce you more though, I wanted to read your bio. So let me see I just have it over here. So Rane, is a longtime student of yoga and meditation. He has an insatiable curiosity about these practices and how they can help people in their daily lives and in overcoming adversity. Ron's interest in these practices deepened after being diagnosed with stomach cancer and subsequently having his stomach removed in 2015. He found these practices helped him cope cope with the emotional difficulties of a terminal misdiagnosis. And aided in his recovery. Rane teaches yoga at garden of yoga home based studio, he runs with his wife and partner Jo Stewart. Together, they host the flow artists podcast in which they speak to teachers and thinkers about yoga, meditation, social justice, and more. And you can find them at podcast.flowartist.com, which we'll put in the link for the show notes and everything. And I've had the amazing opportunity of being your guest on your podcast, which is really, really fun. So anyway, Rane, thanks for being here.
Rane Bowen
Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And also, thanks for writing such a wonderful book. I've been really enjoying it so far. Actually, before I do start, I did want to quickly acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land where we're on based here in Melbourne, the Orangery, people of the Kulin nation, and we love to honor elders and leaders emerging past and present.
Jivana Heyman
That's awesome. And your pronouns are he and him. We could say that too, right?
Rane Bowen
We can actually, I'd like to add another one to that. It's iya, iya, I'm on iya, I can go into this a little bit light a bit on, I guess I'm rediscovering my Maori heritage lately and the pronoun iya means he or she so it's immediately my preferred pronoun.
Jivana Heyman
Wow. That's amazing. And the Maori you said clear again correctly, because I'm sure I said it wrong. Maori, Maori. Yeah, Maori. Maori people are indigenous to Australia and New Zealand, New Zealand, just New Zealand. Only. Australia. You're a guest in Australia I see, So it's indigenous to New Zealand. Yeah, sorry about that. So yeah, we know very little over here in the US. I don't know. We're so naive. But yeah, I'd love to hear more about that, actually. Well, what I've been doing in these podcasts interviews is having the contributors to the book, read the read what they've contributed, actually, which has been a great way to launch into the conversation. So I wonder if you don't mind reading that section you wrote,
Rane Bowen
absolutely. My stomach was removed around five years ago due to stomach cancer. And I find that I hold a lot of tension in the area where my stomach used to be. In my yoga practice, I'm able to recognize this fact soften and sit with it. facing death made me really sit the questions of what is important in this life, taking action to help make this world a better place is one of the answers that came through our love of yoga inspired me and my wife, Jo, to start the flow artist podcast, which has been a connecting thread between us and some incredible activists, artists and authors who also practice yoga, sharing their work with the world is both an act of service but also enriching for us as humans, encouraging us to question and look within just as we do on the mat.
Jivana Heyman
Hmm, that's awesome. Thank you. Yeah, there's a lot in there. I wonder. I mean, you know, the, I think the main topic you talk about is facing death and I, I put this section in the chapter on death, actually, death as the ultimate teacher. And I wonder, would you mind sharing more about that experiences a little bit, and how you're doing now? I guess. Yeah. Curious.
Rane Bowen
I'm not a problem. So in 2015 I I was experiencing a bit of actually goes back to probably 2014, I was experiencing a bit of stomach pain, a bit of discomfort. I actually went to a GP, who at that time actually said are know what what you're experiencing is pretty common, don't worry about it. And I know I didn't enjoy that experience with him very much at all, I don't think he listened to me. So I pretty much just went on as normal for a while, maybe a few months, and then Joe persuaded me to see her doctor. And she, this doctor was a lot better she, she actually listened to my concerns. Initially, she thought I might have a infection. So I got some tests for that, that actually came back positive, but I got treated for that it did nothing. I had a few more tests, I had some ultrasounds. Ultimately, she sent me a referral to a gastroenterologist and I had an endoscopy and colonoscopy. And that's when they found there was a seven by three or four centimeter tumor in my stomach. And I was told that my stomach would have to be removed, which is obviously not the sort of thing you want to hear. And at that time, I didn't even realize that having stomachs removed was a thing that happened. So yeah, so yeah, I guess you could say it was a bit of a shock. But, you know, I had, I had a few chemotherapy sessions, you know, in preparation for the surgery, they they wanted me to sort of bulk my weight up in anticipation of not having a stomach anymore. But right, right at the last minute oz set to have a a scan just before they do the surgery, so they can have a last look at things before you go in. And the test came back that there was some cancer had moved to my lungs. So I was therefore inoperable. The surgeon I don't think deliver the news to me very sensitively, or, or well at all, he sort of just just go to the pub, have a drink? Yeah, yeah. And he also says something along the lines of this test, it's, it's, it's 95. It's basically 100% accurate. But fortunately, I was also getting treatment, as well as seeing the surgeon, I was getting treatment at Peter McCallum Cancer Institute, and they're pretty wonderful there. And they, the oncologist there said, I should get another test just to confirm the results of the first one. And that was scheduled for two weeks later. But in that, in that two weeks time was pretty much dead set sure that life was over. So yeah, I had a bit a bit of time to think about that. But you know, ultimately, I came out very, very lucky. That test came back said, you know, there was no cancer and my my long arm, I went and had a surgery. It was, you know, it was it was obviously a difficult time, but I got through it with the support of a lot of people. So yeah, I'm happy to be here with us now, five or six years later.
Jivana Heyman
Wow. That's an amazing story. I thank you for sharing it. And that moment, you just said like, you had two weeks where you thought that was it, you know, and then I wonder it seemed like, it seemed like that really impacted you that moment. That time. Yeah. When you could say more about that.
Rane Bowen
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to be honest, though, another thing I'd like to mention, I think the hardest part of that time was actually going home and having to call up my my family in New Zealand. And tell him the news. And I just remember I had to go through each family member on the phone and tell them the news and my mum has dementia. So I had to tell her a couple of times. So yeah, that was quite hard. But in that two weeks, yeah, I had a lot of time to think about it. I happen to be reading a book that was sort of on I can't remember the title of the book right now. But it was, it was about different phases of life is about as about consciousness and in sleep and, and being awake and death and there was a bit of a meditation on death. So I remember practicing that a few times. And I, I yeah, I don't I you know, there are there are a few times I couldn't continue that meditation because it was a bit too much. emotionally. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, imagining, I guess the, your own demise is not the most pleasant experience, but it's something I'm glad I, I tried to perhaps I should continue that practice. But, um, it was definitely a time where I had a lot of time to think about what I wanted to do with my life.
Jivana Heyman
I know you said you said in that quote, you said, facing death made me really sit with the questions of what is important in this life. Taking action to help make the world a better place is one of the answers that came through. So that seemed like a clear message. You know, that? How that were that? What did that feel like? That was? Was it just that you really felt loving towards other people? Or what was what came through for you? Exactly.
Rane Bowen
I guess. I guess, you know, I feel like I'm, I've always, I guess felt loving towards other people. Right? What at least I hope so. But and, you know, that's not always true, even at the best of time. But, you know, I guess I was, I was in a, in a job at that time that was making me unhappy. I was you know, obviously I was before I lost my stomach, I was a lot larger than I am now. And maybe not as well, obviously, not as healthy because I had a giant tumor in my stomach. So it did seem obvious to me that things needed to change. So, you know, I do have to say, even though my work life wasn't that pleasant, impossibly helped lead towards my my illness, they did support me a lot through my treatment, which I'm very grateful and thankful for. But at the same time, I also was very fortunate that I have a wife who's an amazing yoga teacher. Yeah. And Joe, actually, after, after my surgery, she helped work out a program for me and have of Pilates and yoga and other exercises and meditation. And I actually think that, without that, my recovery would have been a lot more difficult. So, yeah, I guess it had the effect of bringing me to yoga. And I think a few months after my surgery, I actually decided to do a yoga teacher training. So.
Jivana Heyman
Okay, so it may really like motivated you to become a yoga teacher, would
Rane Bowen
you say? Absolutely, definitely.
Jivana Heyman
And I know you teach I love your chair yoga that you do online. Oh, thank you, what else your teaching is that you're doing?
Rane Bowen
Um, we are doing that at the moment. Obviously, Melbourne has been I think we're officially in the longest lockdown in the world over here. So if everything is is online at the moment, so we're offering a few classes. So our schedule is a bit lighter than it would normally be. So I'm fortunate that I do have another job. And as I was saying to you that's in the social enterprise round so I'm glad that I'm able to do work that is hopefully of benefit to people there as well. But um, yeah, we've I guess, we've been teaching our our chair yoga, a little bit of gentle yoga. We also teach aerial yoga at the studio, and I think that's got a bit of a reputation of being quite, I guess I'm a pretzel the type of yoga but we prefer to use the supportive elements that the hammock can bring. You know, you can feel really nurtured just lying in the hammock. So that's that Something that we would really like to do as well.
Jivana Heyman
That's amazing. I mean, I maybe we could talk a bit more about that because I do think what you're doing what you enjoy doing with that area Yoga is quite unusual. I mean usually aerial Yoga is quite acrobatic and I know that you're trying to make it as a prop that people can use to make the practices more accessible. So is that right, is that you? Yeah, with those slings are called sling.
Rane Bowen
Um, I think when they asked slings, that's slightly different and we use an aerial silk hammock which is sort of karmic, which is technically not actually silk, it's a it's an artificial fabric but but it is, I guess, a little bit more comfortable what can be used a little bit more comfortably comfortably so it's essentially a piece of silk or fabric that is suspended between two points which is suspended from the ceiling and it can be at various different heights, it's commonly at say, waist height, or you can even even have it right down close to the, to the floor so and you can use it to support various parts of the body. And what I also like is that you can, I guess use it for support and say standing postures, if that's where you're at, and then you can gradually take that support away so it's sort of a nice way of regulating you know, people's support and letting them I guess, regulate the amount of of challenge that they want to feel.
Jivana Heyman
Mm hmm. Sounds amazing. Yeah, that's so awesome. And also I want to talk about the podcast a bit because I mean, that's how I got to know you and you just you you have a really I don't know a very nice podcast that feels very welcoming and yet you're just really challenging issues and I wonder if you could talk about how that how did that get started?
Rane Bowen
Oh, thank you um, I guess as I was doing my yoga teacher training This is a bit of a funny story as I was doing my yoga teacher training obviously I'm learning a whole lot of new fun and interesting stuff about yoga and when when I get interested in curious I i guess i did tend to ask Joe a lot of questions maybe often when she was ready to go to sleep for the evening you know, we but we thought of Well, I've always wanted to start a podcast You know, I've been listening to podcasts for years and years and and I've never really had a subject that you know, I thought I could talk about that then I brought the subject up with Jo and and she thought it was a great project and you know, as I I think it's also great to have a project that you can work on with with your partner which is you know, kind of a little bit creative and interesting and so yeah, we started off we you know, we obviously know a lot of yoga teachers in the Melbourne scene so we we wrote up a list of people that we wanted to speak with and then gradually through talking to people we learn about more people and that circle of friends gradually got bigger and bigger and to our you became one of our new friends. So yeah, it's, it's been a great opportunity for us to I guess just connect with a whole lot of different inspiring people and have become friends with them.
Jivana Heyman
And I mean, has it changed the way you think of yoga during the podcast? I mean, I'm sure you've learned a lot
Rane Bowen
definitely definitely and really it was through the podcast that we learnt about the Accessible Yoga movement including yourself so and now it's really a big part of I guess our entire philosophy so yeah, it's been a great inspiration in that regard not and also we you know, we moved you know, we both believe in social justice so you know, we've been talking to a lot of people and those rounds as well and I guess you know, grossly we've we've moved a little a little bit away towards the yoga well, though, not completely, but, you know, we're speaking with psychologists and and, more recently, um, well, you This is relevant for me. But the our next episode that's going to come out is whether a doctor an on colleges who specializes in exercise science. So yeah, so it's sort of been a really interesting way to, I guess, explore our interests and the things that we want to bring out into the world. And another thing I have to mention is that through the podcast, I, I have to say, you know, Joe is is an amazing interviewer. And in my opinion, I tend to hang hang back a little bit, but um, I think Joe's just just really amazing and skilled at it. You know,
Jivana Heyman
I'm doing that whole thing, because it was hard not to have her here with us today.
Rane Bowen
I know, I know, I feel bad.
Jivana Heyman
Oh, no, I'm sorry, Joe. Well, I'm, you know, I think it's nice to focus on your story, too. I feel like, you know, I just loved that message that you shared. And I, I'm very interested in, you know, illness and disability and death. I mean, to be honest, so, you know, I was always very intrigued by that aspect of your story and your life. And I'm so grateful that you shared that with us. And with me, and let me share it in the book. That was really powerful. And I just think, you know, to me, I don't know if it goes back to talking about death a little bit, but I just, I would say that I think there's such an important relationship between the yoga practices and death. And I feel like most people are just, I don't know what just avoid that or unwilling to look at it or afraid of it. And I'm afraid of it to actually To be honest, but but I know it's there. You know, I know that when I think about the most simple way that we pretty much end almost every class with the Shavasana. Yeah. Yeah. It's like corpse pose is not a coincidence. I mean, it really is about like, reflecting on your relationship with the body, right?
Rane Bowen
Absolutely. And I actually remember, this is before I was teaching yoga, but I remember at my, at my work, we actually had a yoga class every every week. And I remember saying, someone said, which of us notice it our corpse pose, and they just giggle like, oh, how silly. Well, no, that's, that's actually something to reflect on there, I guess. But, yeah, yeah. And I actually remember during my whole cancer experiences, I guess you can call it that. I remember a few times that our local teacher, local studio actually gave me free classes the entire time was unwell, for which I'm grateful. There's another thing that the community aspect of yoga, you know, in many aspects, I've found very supportive. But I do remember many times lying in Shavasana, during that time, where I thought, you know, that I was going to die. I'm just just lie in Shavasana cry. I don't know why I'm laughing about that. Yeah. Oh, well,
Jivana Heyman
it seems like it's it's powerful. Like, it just seems like there's a lot of I imagine just a lot around that, you know,
Rane Bowen
and I do feel grateful that I had that time to really just take the time to really be there and think about it.
Jivana Heyman
And do you think that that impacts the way that you teach now, do you think,
Rane Bowen
um, I guess, in a way, I mean, I think I think there is that thought that, um, you know, we are all going to die. And, and I guess another thing that, that helps remind me is that, you know, this was my journey. And it was, wasn't the most pleasant of experiences, but ultimately, we're all going to have a journey like that. So
Jivana Heyman
right, I mean, we're all on that journey. Actually. It's just some of us are in denial about it. And maybe we have more time, you know, to be in denial, but eventually, we're all gonna die. And I think that's, that's been a lesson for me and yoga. You know, because I came back to yoga when I was an AIDS activist and had so many people in my life dying of AIDS and, you know, it just was so helpful to see those teachings and the discussion of death. So you know just right out there as a essential part of the philosophy that you know the basic idea that the body and the mind dies but that part of us doesn't die and that's what Yoga is about in a way is like connecting to that part of us that's eternal the spirit or whatever you want to call it and that just gave me such relief when I was around so many especially young people like young gay men that I was friends with and you know they were doing just so early it just it was just unbelievable.
Rane Bowen
Yeah, that must have been quite a challenging time for you
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, I will but but it really pushed me to explore yoga more deeply because I realized I needed some I needed to understand this better it just was to me It felt like I don't know like yoga offered answers that no one else or nothing else really offered you know it's it's death is something that is hard to speak about and address without spirituality. And I didn't have much of a spiritual practice before that and yoga really helped give me some sense of a connection with something beyond the body and beyond the mind. So I was really grateful to that and that always inspired my teaching and to want to share that with others no absolutely eventually we're all gonna die like we said
Rane Bowen
yeah, yeah and I guess you know just the conclusion you've got to make if we are all going to die we're all going to go through this this journey then you know, the the only choice you can make is to be compassionate with people and I think that's something that you've you've definitely taught me you know the value of compassion and that how that is just essentially the the bedrock of of Accessible Yoga
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, I appreciate that. I think it's the bedrock of yoga actually because yeah to me compassion is almost just like the the feeling that comes up around that teaching I was sharing about before like this the teaching that we have the spiritual nature and that and that and that that spiritual nature is the same in all of us right that we all share that same essence no matter what our life is like what our bodies or minds are like what our experiences like which are all so different and diverse but we have this essential connection and so to me compassion often arises from this feeling of wow like I'm I could be in their shoes like I feel that I'm you know, we're connected and that connection I think it's a good it's also a form of spiritual bypassing you know, we go there too quickly, right? Sometimes we just skip over the differences and go right to what's all the same, but I do feel like in the end, seeing that connection and feeling compassion towards others, helps me connect with the truth of who I am. You know, that makes sense.
Rane Bowen
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, I mean, I wonder how do you feel these days around your own death? Or is that something that you think about?
Rane Bowen
Well, I guess I guess with the the the advent of COVID death is something we think about a lot I guess you're at the same time as I mentioned we've been in in lockdown for quite a while so you know these sometimes things just come back to the day to day of how am I going to get through this week? Yeah, um, but you know, fortunately I feel like we're in an okay position but no, absolutely. Death is something I guess I worry about not just my own death You know, my my family you know, my dad's been having health issues. As I mentioned earlier, my my mum has dementia and that's that's gotten pretty advanced at the moment, and they're in New Zealand, which at the moment I can't actually if I go there, I face probably a two week quarantine each each side so that's that's a bit of a, I guess an issue but, yeah. Death is something I worry about, you know, and we're at the moment in Victoria. I think we've got which this is probably nothing compared to what you guys are experiencing over in the States, but I think we're up to around 2000 new cases a day, and they just trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible before we open up, which is probably going to be around early, or mid November. And so I guess, you know, largely in Australia, we've been relatively free of, of COVID. But I think it's going to be a new experience for a lot of people opening up into a world that is not free of COVID. Um, so, yeah, I think that's something I've been thinking about, there's a possibility that people that we might know, you know, be affected. So there's, there's a whole lot of you're in, and also the, the prospect of, I guess, policing, whether people coming to our studio are vaccinated or not. So, you know, there's a whole lot of issues that we, I guess, have to think through and be very patient about. So yeah, it's, it's an interesting time.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, it really has been I mean, it's, for me, it's remind me a lot of the AIDS epidemic, it's a little different, because I feel like back then there was very little government action at all in. And even now in the US, there's not as much as you're having there in Australia, but you know, it's some, it feels at least like we're all facing this together, right now, in some sense, even though there's definitely like the anti Vax side, or the pro Vax side, whatever. But during aids, it was just like, I felt that, especially when it started in gaming, with gay men getting sick, there was just no interest in supporting us at all. And I think homophobia was really keeping people from addressing what was going on. But in a way, like what you're doing with what's happening, there is really very aggressive government response. And here we have the opposite, like, there's just very slow. There's a lot of I know what people call it, this, this idea that they want their freedom and their independence. So they push against any rules, even though they don't think necessarily of others. You know, it's like conflating your individual freedom with what actual freedom is. or service to your community. It's a bit frustrating. I mean, here, I think we're still having the missie. Just yesterday, we had over 1700 deaths in the US, which is shocking, you know, it means like, still happening, and yet, you see very little going on. I mean, we have to wear masks in California have to wear a mask indoors. But that's about it. So, but we have had access to vaccines pretty quickly. So that's been a relief. I think that's happening there now. But yeah, it's been interesting to reflect on on illness and death during COVID. And, you know, I think I think we've seen again, the way that people with chronic illness or disabilities are basically oppressed, ignored, not listened to not supported this year in the US like that's, that's been a sad thing to see through COVID. Again, just the way that I don't know what it is ableism works. Yeah, it's
Rane Bowen
interesting isn't even even in here in New Zealand. I know that. Every time they announced the, the deaths of people from the COVID, they'll say, these amount of people had pre existing conditions, which is, yeah, kind of irrelevant. Really.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, exactly. Right. Like that means it's okay, that they died. You know, what does that mean?
Rane Bowen
And especially if you consider, I think, you know, I think asthma is a pre existing condition and something like, you know, 10 or 11% of people have asthma. So there you go. Yeah, or something. I don't quote me on that. But yeah, something rather high. I mean, you know, I have a pre existing condition. So yeah, right. Yeah. So you don't want to die? No, no, we don't want anyone to
Jivana Heyman
know, we need to care for each other. And so that's the thing about getting vaccinated or wearing a mask is it helps to support other people, it helps keep other people safe, even if you're not worried about your own health. You know, the idea of those kinds of actions are a way to be compassionate, to be of service to others, which I think I tried to talk about in the book actually a bit but yeah, I wonder anything else you want to talk about, about your journey? Anything else that's coming to your mind around? Yeah, I guess yoga
Unknown Speaker
Um, it's, it's not necessarily well I feel like it's somewhat relates here, I guess, as I mentioned before, I've been going through a bit of a journey about rediscovering my Maori heritage. And as part of that, I've been trying to learn my multi language to Modi. And, and that has actually been quite, quite a great experience for me, I guess, you know, I went back to New Zealand. Just in between lockdowns essentially. And my dad was ill my you know, I had to look after my mom for a little while there. And that was actually a wonderful experience. But at the end of there, also, one of my great uncles passed away. So just just before I left, I got to go to my great uncle's funeral, we call them tiny. In New Zealand, and the way Maori culture I guess, celebrates death is, I wouldn't say unique, but it's essentially a three, three days, the, the deceased is in the 40 in the in the meeting room, and everyone can gather around and you know, it's three days of the family and friends all gathering together and celebrating the life of the person who's passed away. And I was very fortunate to, to go off. I don't know fortunate the word, but I feel fortunate that I was able to go back and experience a part of my life that I hadn't really since since I was quite young. And that led me to come back home and reflect on that. And so I started learning, Maori language, and that opened up a whole lot of things. Because, you know, there's a lot of belief that having the, the Maori language enables you to think Maori to experience the Maori the Maori world, which I think is, you know, I'm still in my early stages, but it's opening a lot for me, because there's a lot of thought about nature and stewardship and, and compassion and kindness and integrity. And yeah, so it's, it's, it's really, so far, even though I'm pretty early on, in my experience, it's been quite a wonderful learning.
Jivana Heyman
And is there a lot of racism there? and Australia, Australia and New Zealand? Yes. New Zealand? Both? Yeah, yeah.
Rane Bowen
I would argue that the indigenous people of Australia have had things quite a lot worse. But New Zealand is not without its issues, even though some may like to say that, you know, we, you know, we're great in New Zealand. It's, you know, my experience has not been that amazing. And, you know, I mean, at the same time, we haven't experienced the level of racism in the United States. I can imagine so. Oh, well, it's all about I mean,
Jivana Heyman
it's all bad. Yeah. different. Different versions of the same thing I imagine. Absolutely. Yeah. of hate and bigotry and power, like power taking away being taken away from you. And I mean, yeah, well, thanks for sharing that. That's, that's exciting, what an amazing journey. And how incredible that you have a chance to do that to learn the language. And
Rane Bowen
absolutely, and also I think a part of that is because, you know, we've got this wonderful thing called the internet and there's so much amazing all the media that I can just look up and learn about and there's podcasts and there's apps and all sorts so yeah, it's great. So I'm still a little bit scared to actually try and have a conversation with someone. But you know, I'm getting there I'm getting there. That's amazing. Yeah, I've
Jivana Heyman
actually been studying Spanish in a lockdown just because I actually speak some French but in California, there's so many people who speak Spanish there's like such a huge like, right here around here. There's a huge Latino population. And I just feel like I want to be able to speak with them, you know, and not expect people to speak English with me. But I'm kind of where you're at which is like I have I feel like I know enough like I can understand if someone speaks really slowly, but only maybe a part of it and I'm afraid to speak
Rane Bowen
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's it's a it's a great have a bit of a jump. That one isn't it is like,
Jivana Heyman
yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember when I actually lived in France for a year. And that was the key, like actually living there every day day in day out having to speak French that. I mean that did it. But then, once I came back here, it just slowly went away. Oh, no, oh, no. I know, it's sad. I think actually languages are a really great way to think differently. I love what you said about that speaking in my it would help I'm saying it right. But help you think that way? I think it's like, it's true that languages are structured based on culture. And I think there is like a different way to think of the world almost based on that language is quite amazing.
Unknown Speaker
Absolutely. And even like I said earlier, the pronoun iya, yeah, but not not being gendered. On the other hand, there'll be very specific pronouns on this is a male, oldest sibling of a male. But um, yeah, I think is, is very interesting. And just a lot of things seem very logical and systematic to me in a weird way. And I don't know, I feel. I know, I feel like it's a very nurturing language.
Jivana Heyman
Amazing, that's amazing. Well, you know, I'm Jewish, so I should probably learn Hebrew, honestly, what I should be doing, and, and when you talked about how you were sitting for three days, when someone dies, is that what you're saying? is like, it reminded me of actually Jewish tradition where you sit, I think it's a whole week, you sit Shiva. for a whole week, seven days after someone dies, you just say there, you don't do anything, right? You just stay home, people can come visit you pretty much. That's it. But yeah, those traditions are quite interesting. Like they,
Rane Bowen
and kind of stark contrast of what is probably the more commonly Practice, practice in the Western world today. So yeah, I think it makes you really, you know, just being there and, and, you know, sitting with a family sitting with the deceased for that period of time, it really changes the way you experience. Death, I think.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much. I mean, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you and be able to ask you questions.
Rane Bowen
Yeah, and I can't wait to speak with you and ask you some questions.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, I know, you're so nice. You get to invite me back, you know, which is very kind. But yeah, really, thanks. And thanks for you know, contributing to the book, I really appreciate what you what you share there and sharing your story. And that is just such a powerful lesson for us this idea of facing death, and really learning from it. It's just very, very intriguing and inspiring to me. So thank you. So thank you, Ron. And and maybe we'll, we'll share a link to your podcast and the website in the show notes. And yeah, I don't know anything else.
Unknown Speaker
I think all I have to say is, um, yeah, thank you for everything that you've done. And thank you for this wonderful book. And, you know, obviously, there's a lot going on in the yoga world, some of that not that pleasant. But to me, and Jo, I know that you you're someone that really inspires us and actually, is something that to me, you know, your movement is the shining light of the yoga world. So thank you.
Jivana Heyman
Oh, wow, that's so sweet of you to say. I really appreciate it. And, and actually, the keyword there being movement, and I just want to say that, you know, I, I think I get a lot of credit for a lot of people that are doing great stuff. So I want to give that credit to all of them. You know, and I think I just, I like to talk.
That's my problem. Well, they do. Great, thank you in so do you actually and i'd love people to really listen to your podcast. It's so awesome. Thank you. Anyway, so say hi to Jo for me. Thanks so much for being here. Alright, take care. Bye.
Thanks so much for listening and joining the conversation. Yoga is truly a revolutionary practice. Thanks for being here. If you haven't already, I would love for you to read my book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. It's available wherever books are sold. Also, you can check out my website JivanaHeyman.com There's some free classes on there and a meditation and you can find out more about my upcoming trainings and other programs. Hope to see you next time. Thanks bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
