Jivana Heyman
Hello and welcome. This is the yoga Revolution podcast. My name is Jivana Heyman, my pronouns are he and him. This podcast is an exploration of how we can live yoga right now. And how we can apply the yoga teachings in our lives will discuss the intersection of yoga and social justice, as well as how to build a practice that supports our activism. All my guests are contributors to my new book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. Thanks so much for joining me. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the yoga revolution podcasts. I'm so excited about my special guest today. Octavia Raheem. Hi, Octavia. Hi. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited. But let me introduce you first. So Octavia F Raheem is a mother, author, yoga teacher and activist. She has received national attention for her work training yoga teachers in diversifying the yoga and wellness industry. She's the author of Gather and the new book that's just coming out. Pause, Rest Be: Stillness Practices for Courage in Times of Change. Wow, so excited. You know what I have courage in my subtitle to?
Octavia Raheem
Oh, you do building a practice of courage and compassion? Yes.
Jivana Heyman
We're on the same page. We are. Thank you. How are you doing?
Octavia Raheem
I'm present. I'm here.
Jivana Heyman
I'm here. I love that answer. I'm gonna start saying that present.
I was wondering, I've been starting these podcasts by having the guests read their contribution to yoga revolution. So I wonder if you could do that on page 139 of the book. Alright,
Octavia Raheem
thanks. Yeah, I would love to do that. So my ancestors didn't come here voluntarily. Until, until only a few decades ago, many didn't own their bodies or have access to basic freedoms. Despite that legacy of being physically bound and systemically shut out of so much. I know that my existence is evident of their belief and faith that freedom was slash is our birthright. For me, yoga is a practice toward liberation. It is a space to examine and shed the chains that are not mine to carry. It is an opportunity to untangle myself from the traps, projections, narratives and expectations that dominant culture purports about people like me, a southern born black American woman. Through my yoga practice, I've learned how to access freedom in my body in breath, space, in my mind and heart. I connect to the wisdom and my soul, wisdom force across space and time by my ancestors. And I kind of close that session that that statement with some words by Toni Morrison, the function of freedom is to free someone else, huh.
Jivana Heyman
I love that. Thank you for sharing. And thank you for allowing me to share that in the book. It just is so powerful and beautiful. You know, and I think I, I tried to connect to that to some of the thoughts you shared in this section of the book, on engaged yoga, just talking about the relationship between yoga and social justice. And honestly, this book, my book yoga revolution started, I started writing during Black Lives Matter. I was inspired by that, you know, basically the biggest civil rights movement in our history. I feel like it felt like things were really changing in that moment. You know, and I don't know how it feels right now. But it was so inspiring.
Octavia Raheem
Things don't change in a moment. You know, we're recording this in January 2020 to the third day right? You know, everyone goes new you New Year or new whatever I see I can't even get it right cuz I don't say it anymore. But I read something with someone was like, Come on, y'all. We know that change is like drops at a time small steps at a time that can be incredibly frustrating to the you know, I could just Do that. And then what you were saying about the moment of it felt like a big, expansive, very visible change, change, and now it feels like an ember. And sir, this is smoke smoldering. Yeah. But it's there, though, right?
Jivana Heyman
Yes. Well, I mean, I think I was excited because of my experience with AIDS activism. And I've been wanting to see more movements, more civil rights events, you know, and it was just inspired me. And I've been thinking all along about the connections between yoga teachings and social justice. And then during those days, it felt so clear to me, I was like, Oh, here we are. Here's the connection. But I think some of the things you said I wanted to ask you more about not owning their own bodies. Like to me that was really powerful statement, because I thought about how I think about the way we teach yoga. And, and how, in the West, the Western contemporary yoga practice is often taught, in a way where it's still about controlling other people's bodies, you know, like the teacher, or the lineage is doing this thing to you as the student as a practitioner? And I, I don't know, I heard something in there. What do you think about that?
Octavia Raheem
You know, so as you were talking, I, so now I teach a lot of restorative yoga, yoga, nidra yoga, like kind of very steel, quiet low to the ground, far less performative and doing yoga. Before this, as teach them all, though, right? I can teach poses, I taught power yoga for years. And when you were speaking, I thought about how it felt really intuitive to me, when I taught a lot of physical practice, to leave space for people to feel their bodies, listen to their bodies, be with their bodies, and claim their own bodies. You know, in the language I use, like, I could not, it was intolerable to me in classes, when teachers will go, I want you to go and doesn't matter what you want me to do, because you're not in this body, right. And I think it can be really nuanced and subtle, like the way when we're teaching and guiding and holding that space for people to have an embodied experience, the ways that we can, if we're not paying attention, be certain people have a sense of, you know, ownership of their own body and experience, you know, um, and so I guess, as a teacher, with this, like, blood running through my veins of those who have been free in body and those have not been free, like no one really taught me to not say certain things like when I did my yoga, my first 200 hour, you know, almost, I don't know, 15, 17 years ago, I just decided that I wasn't going to talk to people like I had more command over their body than they did. Right. Right. It's just not true. And it just further perpetuates. it disconnects us from our own like wisdom and inner listening and loving, be know the scan we're in. So that's something to think about, right? Like, are we even is the language we're using supporting people feeling? Free to be with their bodies as they are?
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, you said, through my practice, I've learned how to access freedom in my body and breath space in my mind and heart. I connect to the wisdom in my soul wisdom forged across space and time by my ancestors.
Octavia Raheem
You know what I'm talking about there too. Because I practice, like the quiet yoga. Those are those practices where I feel like I connect to my body and something more than my body right? Now my mind's in what constructed that mind if I can go all the way out? There it is. The interesting thing about how a lot of times we see and hear the word yoga or soju even I'm gonna make a loud confession, confession, confession or your podcast. I don't always say I'm a yoga teacher anymore, because people will then like bust out a pose and go Well, can you teach me how to better do this? You know, and I'm like, I know that's what you can lead to think that that's what yoga is. And I think I probably participated in that perpetuation, like I know I did, I should claim that right, we all have to some degree, we you know, better you do better as Maya Angelou said, and, you know, like, the desk is not, that's not what it is. And so that's just to say, like, as my personal practice, and my teaching practice has really shifted from being very asana based, I feel like I've moved into a place or pose based or I've moved to a place where I'm like, I there is the taste of freedom. In the silence, oh, there's the taste of freedom, in simply sitting there as to taste of what I am beyond all these other things. And so when I'm talking about being able to connect to wisdom across space and time, I am literally talking about that which we can experience it through meditation, yoga, nidra, those kinds of practice. Because I've never experienced that in in Austin, I love poses, right? They're gateways, they're incredible. I think it's so important to you know, like, touch and feel and be with this body. And I'm grateful I don't stop there. You know, yes, a life changing teaching experience I had. Gosh, I don't know how many years ago this was, but I had a younger woman who went in for surgery, get back surgery, and woke up and couldn't move her body. And that was, she could move I think her head and neck. And so she is paralyzed from there down. And she would come to my classes. I'm in her wheelchair. Most of the a few other students in class with with her permission, we would, if she wanted to get out of a wheelchair, we put her on the floor. And do I was teaching restorative yoga and yoga nidra. And we prop her up and really support her. And she loved coming to yoga nidra and I'd be teaching specifically the 61 points right where you like you are just feel into this place in your body. And so we did this practice of nothing, right doing nothing, right? We're not moving, we're not lifting it are we're just bringing awareness to body parts. And after the first time, she just kind of stared at me, then I was like, I don't know, if she's ever come back. I hope I didn't do anything wrong, because this is a tinder place to be in with someone, right? Like, I was like our first yoga class post. You know, whatever therapy she was going to put in the second time she came, we did the practice. And she goes, I can feel. And I was like you can see was like you don't understand, like, I don't I don't feel below suicide. Thank you for just the simple practice of bringing awareness here. Bring awareness here and see this, like, I felt like I was a floating head. You know, since what happened to her? And in that moment, he and she was like, and it just reminded me to connect to my breath. And, you know, that's still there. And that moves to my whole body.
And she was like, Yeah, we're not and so I wasn't teaching asana opposes that class wasn't opposed class. And this woman was like, my body is waking up. And she was like, there was no expectation like, and I'm gonna get up involved, but it was just like, I can feel there's a sense of presence prana and awareness in the rest of my being. And that was when I said, Oh, you know, I will you know, yoga and liberation. I was like, Oh, that is really powerful. Like she was my teacher in that moment. Yes. I kind of feel like I'm rambling, but
Jivana Heyman
no, I love it. I've had similar experiences my students. Most many of my students with disabilities taught me similar things. Everything I've learned pretty much about yoga. But that's why but I think I disagree with you. I think you are teaching yoga. I think you're actually teaching yoga. And that it's the people who think they're teaching yoga when they're just doing asana only without taking it deeper to connect with what's beyond the body in mind. Then I don't know for teaching yoga. Actually,
Octavia Raheem
really I do. I agree with you. And it's so wild in this moment. I'm like, what? Okay, this is, I don't know if I can make it mate. We know that we know what you've just said is true. So I guess I shouldn't just go, No, I'm not a yoga teacher, I actually have to be like, Yes, I teach yoga, and this is what I'm teaching, or I share yoga, and this is what I'm sharing. So thank you for that. Versus just saying is too much to try to explain and to change the
Jivana Heyman
world? Do you change yourself or change the world? Thank you know what? Yeah, I mean, I, I think what you're teaching is beyond yoga to honestly, I can get that I get that you're talking about your own family's wisdom, also, which may not have been called yoga. Right. So like, maybe that's part of that. I would I hear a little though. Yeah,
Octavia Raheem
it is. It is. It is. It is.
Jivana Heyman
But I think, to me, when we can get to the subtlety that you get to, that's where the power lies, like you. I mean, I'm so grateful to you and your emphasis on that on the quiet part of the practice on the part that is around. I don't have to say this, I think what you do so so well. Traditionally, in yoga, there's a lot of denial of the body in mind. And like, instead, we should embrace spirit. Like instead like as if it's a binary and it is it's a dual to dualistic philosophy, right, like the yoga Sutras present us with this kind of dualism, like body mind on the one side and spirit on the other. And what I feel like what I get in your teaching, and in your new book, which I wanted to talk about a little bit actually is more of a integrated approach which is something that I'm very interested in personally. How do we integrate our human experience and our spiritual life rather than just always picking one or the other nine one or the other? You know so to give you an example
Octavia Raheem
well you know if that I just had it I don't know what else is gonna come my mouth but I was like, mothering you know parents say it feels like such a very concrete satin of that because you have these beings that you're like wow, there's something very spiritual and transcendent and this like like connection and and then a statement snack you still gotta cut the apple right? You know like there's like our being in relate intimate relationship with other people. You're like this deeply spiritual and like, wow, like this effervescence, too and which one of y'all is gonna watch the laundry? And I just feel like I don't know. It is although the stew of being his body and mind and spirit and do I believe at our essence and kind of core like we are like the I think there's like a god, what do you call it a cliche. Now, we're spiritual being a physical experience, I get that. And God hears the spiritual is this physical experience that we're having? And I think that that informs all the other like, it's all informing itself
you know, like, one of my spiritual lenses comes from greater timber Ridge Baptist church that I grew up in. Where I had experiences that now my huh, kind of feels like, I'm, you know, when I'm chanting for a long time, and that, that essence comes up like but what we were singing, it's this little light of mine. I'm gonna let aside that's what we were singing. We weren't singing to Durga, but And so like for me. I don't know where
Jivana Heyman
I was going with that. But yeah, no, here. I want to read a quote of yours from your new book. You say this is a short one. You are not lost. You're here to reorient your way to the path that is truly yours to walk. I feel like that's what you're talking about.
Octavia Raheem
Yeah. Mm. I also wrote that because I'm thinking about the kind of collective moment we're living through. Okay. And it also feels You can feel like I am so lost. Where am I today? Okay, no, where am I now? And I think there's profound kind of reorientation happening. We're being asked to, like, look around and see what's actually here, see who's actually here. And in that, seeing who's here, see who's not here, see insane where we are see what we are not.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah. And I want to just reflect back to what you said about having kids. And a lot of my book is about that, too. Like, a lot of my practice came out of being a parent, you know, I was lucky that I got to be the main caregiver for both of my kids. I don't know how many men get to do that, from, you know, very early, my kids are adopted, like a birth basically. And then we had the struggle to keep them alive. You know, and, like he said, it's like, that was spiritual awakening, for me. Having to wake up a middle the night without a thought to my own for myself, not a mission to have to be able to wake up until the night and do something for my in my infant child out of love that was like, Oh, wait, this is actually what it means to love. This is what it means to serve. Like I didn't even know before, you know what that meant. And I was like, that's what we're talking about.
Octavia Raheem
Anything I think about, I had this this healer I used to go to and she's, you know, I was telling her how much I loved my son. It is actually breaking my heart. Like, my heart is ending. Like this is it is unexpected. It's a lot. And she said Your Divine loves you like that. And so it gave me this content. Wow. I never thought like I am that loved right. And things sound right. Because clearly is more than but I also think just you know, those kinds of close relationships, whether it's with children or a partner, I think we can have them with other sentient beings, right? It also exposes you to yourself, you go take your one thing and then you get to really see who you are. Rom Das, who was like he think your spiritual and evolved in ego spend a week with your family?
Jivana Heyman
Exactly. Exactly. I think about that a lot. I feel lucky because I when I write when I met my husband, I was thinking about becoming a monk, actually, we
Octavia Raheem
were joking when you say Oh,
Jivana Heyman
I'm serious. I was ready to become a monk. I was on the path. I was all in, like, I'm diving into that yoga stuff. And he like, kept me out. He kept me in the world. And I actually think it's a blessing, you know, to have this family life and the struggle of kids and you know, my kids are older, just wait until they're teenagers, you know, which is that talk about breaking your heart. I mean, that's, that's their job is to, you know, when they're teenagers, you know, their job is to break your heart so that you can let them be free. Mm hm. That's taught me a lot. So I am grateful for that. And also struggling, still struggling. Alright, I want to read something else from you. You said, your heart may be broken. Walk through the opening. Rest in the inner sanctuary of your being. Place your most intimate, soft and loving prayers on the altar within your heart. This is one way to remember you are whole
Octavia Raheem
Mm hmm. Yeah. You know, so I write a lot I rest and write? That's my process. People go, Hey, you write these books? I go and one lady I was just talking to she was like, you know, they feel channeled. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. I was like, Well, I just go listen. Like what wants to come through me what needs to be spoken, what does not need to be spoken? And I also just a moment we're all living through. In addition to just regular life, I'm like, Oh, it's so heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking. And it's where the breakage there's this opening, right? Like that's what's happening when you were talking about I presume you're kind of talking about what was going on in June 2020. Post George Floyd's murder, may he rest in love and peace and power. All this breaking also all this opening? Right? What's gonna come out what's going to come come in? That's what I was thinking about when I wrote that. cuz sometimes we have a profoundly negative connotation to the broken. Yeah. And I feel like through my yoga practice, yoga helps me have the courage to like face life as it is. And in that way start to really have more capacity to vision and then activate how it can be, if that makes any sense. And, and because I yoga like it's this untying mechanism for me because I can be really stoic and kinda just like numb out to push through. And those practices like you can just sit and be quiet be you know, if you if you have a meditation practice, you sit enough something starts to eat, and it's not just your mind, something starts to happen in your heart, you know, you start to I don't know another way to describe it other than unthaw and and untying kind of starts into like, oh, because we our cogently our relationship to just like feeling an expression of feeling is we clamp that down. And I don't really subscribe to yoga best just like clamp that down. I don't I mean, I don't know if there's any yoga that really does that. But it's just my yoga is how do I how do I face? What is
Jivana Heyman
and angry - talk about that? That deep, strong feelings? You talk about that?
Octavia Raheem
Yeah, I was gonna say what courage and compassion and that's in your title. How do I face this with courage? Right? And core? Courage comes from the Latin, the core, the root which is the heart?
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, that's the French word for heart, coeur.
Octavia Raheem
Coeur. How do I face this? With my heart?
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, that's what I've tried to get at too, you know, you do it in this much simpler, more direct way. I mean I hate to compare, but I don't know, like, I'm blown away by some of the things you say. Here's another one. Truth is that only the most courageous are ever brought this far in deep into the unknown. The ones who are willing to face the darkness within themselves in the world to understand the level of light needed to move forward. You are here because you are one of the courageous ones.
Octavia Raheem
That was for you Jivana. And, and your listener, thank you. And Dr. Gail Parker and Jacoby Ballard. And, you know, all of these people that, you know, public public facing in some way, and there's also like, what we've traversed to face in the direction that we have. Yeah, you're able to write about the yoga revolution. And revolution is not cute and sexy. You're like, you're not writing about it, you're living it, you are activating it, you're calling people into it. You're lifting people up into it, you're falling down into it's like, Whoa, I assume that if you are here doing this, it's because you have been called into doing it with your courageous heart. Um, you know, sometimes we're like, Why? Why I gotta get that lesson? Well you're gonna need it for later. Or it's gonna, you know, shore up your work or it gives you a more compassionate lens, it grants you the grace to have a more compassionate lens to look, as you look out into the world and see and serve people.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. I think it has to do with seeing something, you know, in myself, and wanting to. And also seeing the world it's like, it's a process to me of inner reflection and then also seeing it out there. And feeling like, you know, a spiritual practice is the key to making change in the world. You know, like, any kind of change is going to happen in the world that's positive comes from people's inner work. And so that's what I was. That's what I'm trying to say in my book is that yoga is it's an inner revolution, like the way we embrace ourselves, the way we relate to ourselves. And also, then it changes the way you walk in the world if you do that work, because you're not projecting everything on to other people and looking for other people to fix you all the time. And I think that's where so much damage can occur. I guess I'm trying to find a way to help people. It's like, I read the other day somewhere like so much damage is done when we try to fix the world. Yep. Yeah. I feel like that's what you're saying. Here's another one of yours you say right now, the only light coming through is that of an intense fire, the fire of your rage. You did not have to simmer down. Do not burn yourself either. Peer into the fire, what fuels it? And how can the light of it serve you in this dark place?
Octavia Raheem
Yeah, what's the fuel behind the fire. How can we like own that and then like use that fire on transmutation. And I haven't read the whole book, but I was thinking about Lama Rod Owens work, you know, he has his book Love and Rage and the teaching to like, not deny it to not turn away from it, right? Because, you know, we turn away from it, we clamp it down, it comes up and now and it sprews onto other people, right, or we completely stuff it down, it goes over here and like does this thing to our left shoulder, our heart, our liver, I'm just naming things. But meaning it we it's like turning on ourselves. You know, and I just again, it's like I said earlier, it's like, how can we be with these big expressions of humanity like rage or sorrow or grief? Are any of those things with some level of skill? Because without skill with those things, how can we be within in love and joy in all those other things that we like, we want more of that? Well, how can we be with that if we can't be with the the other side of it you know, you were talking about inner work. So that this, you're offering the fruit, if you will love that, no, we're out into the world. That's what I heard to say, I went back to the song I was kind of started talking about at the beginning of this podcast, This little light of mine, I'm gonna let inside, you know, in the singing of that and hearing of that, and and remembering it the way I internalized that song and that I grew up singing was by I already have to be in relationship with the light within me. You know, and I have to like, you know, uncover whatever is covering it are trying to smolder it out, I have to do what it takes for that light to shine. And then it shines from within to out. You know, and I feel like that's what we're talking about. It's like from the within to out because like, we don't have the we don't have the light. And to be clear, we all have it right. But we don't have that light to just sit in a corner and hold it and hoard it from the world right. We are to be stewards of tending to it within us. And then we have that splendid luminousness to offer back out.
Jivana Heyman
That's so beautiful. You just said that so well. I love it. Oh my god. Too much. You're too much. How does that feel? How does it feel for you to have these books in the world? Or this one's about to come out? I'm just curious about
Octavia Raheem
you know, it feels you said this at your launch. You were like, Why don't you write these things. And then it's out in the world. Like, it's really like writing an intimate act, these things are coming from within you and then you go here. I feel really tender and hopeful and very excited to have the opportunity to connect to people in a way that I feel like we're can you know, the beautiful thing about books even I know, you know this because you travel the world teaching, your book can travel more, your book can go forward more, it can actually create more accessibility, because it is more accessible. And there's only one you and there's one me and there could be in the world a million copies of this book, you know. And so I mean, I hope that Pause, Rest, Be the book I wrote as a companion. The way I thought about it was just like, I think there's a lot of loneliness in the world. Like even when we're with people, we can just feel like I'm alone. You know, I think we're all in our own beams having these really big experiences and emotions and like where we put him where they go and It's actually hard to express some of the levels of like loss, devastation. And just like trauma and grief, we're all going through. And I hope the book can be a companion.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah. I can't believe you just said that. Because I started working on a new project, which I haven't told anyone about. And now you tell, I'm just saying that word companion is right in there. That's like, we're that's what inspired me. That's exactly what you said. You know, that I'd like to support people on their journey. And it was very clear that that was like the way into that new the new project. So yeah. Yeah, I love that
Octavia Raheem
You like those C words, courage, compassion. I'm like that too.
Jivana Heyman
Yeah, yes. Change. You got change in there to courage in times of change. It's so awesome. Pause, Rest Be anything else you want to share about it? Or about your teaching?
Octavia Raheem
Hi, just I want to tell you, thank you.
Jivana Heyman
Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for being here with me and for sharing and for writing these books. Both this one and Gather people if you don't know, Gather is already available? Right. It's already out there is and paws recipe comes out. What? February 1, 2022. Yes. Okay. Well, thank you for thank you for being you and for spending time with me and talking with us today. And I'll put a link to that. We'll put a link to the book and your website in the show notes. And take care of yourself. Thank you. Jivana. All right. Thanks, Octavia. Okay, bye. Thanks so much for listening and joining the conversation. yoga is truly a revolutionary practice. Thanks for being here. If you haven't already, I would love for you to read my book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. It's available wherever books are sold. Also, you can check out my website JivanaHeyman.com. There's some free classes on there and a meditation and you can find out more about my upcoming trainings and other programs. Hope to see you next time. Thanks. Bye
